Published on July 22, 2003 By SelfExiled In WinCustomize Talk
Why does a moderator have to rate a skin at all? Why shouldn't the community decide the rating of a particular piece of artwork. Clearly, a moderator has artistic qualifications that they apply to a skin that will probably be a lot higher than the general public. If a skin passes moderation then let the community decide the rating should be for that skin. This will solve any rating bias or "politics" that an artist feels has been applied to his or her work by an administrator or moderator. And, if no one rates the skin, then it can say that this piece has not yet been rated. And, no ones feelings get hurt this way. I'm sure that an artist can figure out why his skin was rated the way it was, by the communities comments in the skin comments. Just a thought for something that seems to be growing in a negative way regarding the rating system.
Comments (Page 2)
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on Jul 22, 2003

Chas I appreciate people making suggestions and ratings has been a contentious issue since the site went up. We've changed the system several times to address user input and try to make it more acceptable. The problem with your idea is we can't have pieces that aren't rated for a few reasons;

1- The ratings are used for sorting, anything without a rating would be either invisible or at the end of the section.

2- Very few people leave ratings. There's a good probability under your idea that most submissions would never get rated.

So maybe a better idea would be to just have an admin rating and no user ratings. Or maybe have two rating categories, site rating and user rating (like Deskmod does)

Personally I don't care for ratings either but I don't know of any skins site that doesn't have them. When you have a huge database of individual works it's a necessity.

on Jul 22, 2003
Let's see... How does nonesense like this start again? Start a thread, do not check the facts first, imply there is intentional misconduct, lately "politics" is trendy, hide the bomb with a smiley, make sure you mention the "community" and don't forget feelings, etc., etc., etc. Sigh.
on Jul 22, 2003
Damn it, Matthijs...."political bombs within the ratings community are hurting feelings and moderators are evil"........[did I get all the key-words?]...
on Jul 22, 2003
on Jul 23, 2003
Hi

Do you think it is funny making ChasUGC look like ignorant?

ChasUGC has make a suggestion with good will, it is obvious that he doesn't know exactly all the facts, but as he said "Make fun of people who propose an idea" is not a good idea!

I am sorry about it ChasUGC and the rest of you people who I am sure that you didn't intent to do it, but you did it again

People are avoiding to post in threads and make propositions because of this kind of laughs etc so they end up with the thought, "who cares!", why should I?
on Jul 23, 2003
An example of a good answer is #16 by DavidK

on Jul 23, 2003
Adni, I don't have a problem with new ideas. I have a problem with the way these "new" ideas are brought.

The way ratings actually work isn't even important. That's why Frogboys asks his question in post #1.

If I see a word like "political" then one can either ignore this like DavidK is doing in post #16 or one can use Jafo's method in post #7 and try to defend the honesty of admins for the millionth time.

Or you can use my method and laugh about the "politics".

Becoming angry about it doesn't help. Next week we see another thread like this. Because nobody is ever satisfied. Even if ratings are removed someone will start a thread why there aren't ratings.

Adni, of course you know better than anyone else that there are no politics in moderation, no hidden agendas and no conspiracies against skinners. You have been in these discussions before.
on Jul 23, 2003
I would trust the moderators to rate my work over some who might be trying to manipulate the ratings.If moderator ratings determined visibility my wb might still be available to the public.I like most of my fellow skinners but I dont trust all of them.
on Jul 23, 2003
on Jul 23, 2003
#22 by MadIce
"Adni, of course you know better than anyone else that there are no politics in moderation, no hidden agendas and no conspiracies against skinners. You have been in these discussions before".

Oh yes Matthijs, I maybe know better than anyone some things, but not the ones you have mention.
And yes, I have seen this movie before and now that I am thinking about it, I didn't like it at all

But I still care about WC and love the majority of WC community


on Jul 23, 2003

It's true that moderators are the safest way to have your work rated. User ratings often are nothing more than a friend trying to make you feel good or an enemy trying to make you feel bad. If someone gets mad at you they'll give you a 1 to drag down your score, likewise, your buddy will give you a 10 to show he's your buddy. Moderators don't do these things, they rate your work in a consistent manner using criteria that makes the consistency of the ratings more meaningful.

It seems like whenever there's ratings discussion it comes from one of two places. One is someone gets rated low after their piece has been up for awhile and they're angry because someone sabotaged their rating so they want ratings abolished (or they just want to talk about it hoping that will make people less likely to do it to others). The best way to deal with this is to contact an admin, not post a message board thread because of the unfortunate tendency for so many members to jump in with their own motives either to slam the poor poster or start their own tirade against the site. 

Which brings us to the other reason, ego. The other most common thread on ratings is anger because someone got a low rating and they want a higher one. If you look at their work and compare with other pieces you'll almost always see their rating was fair, consistent with other pieces that are of similar quality. But these people will start an argument that ratings are political, moderators are in a conspiracy, or various other ridiculous claims because they want a high rating to boast about to their friends even though their work doesn't deserve it. These people try to gather anyone who has a complaint about the site to join them in their cause. These arguments are the worst as they degenerate into insults and foolish demands that when not met are 'proof' that the site is unresponsive to users or 'elitist'. 

With all the tempers and emotions flying around here on a daily basis, I don't see any alternative to having moderators making the ratings. Users often have their own agenda, moderators rate the same way for everyone. You can make an argument that moderators are just users that have been given a title but speaking for the group, we take the title seriously. The crew of moderators here were hand picked over the years because of their art backgrounds and experience in skinning or the community and for their maturity and even-temperedness. We're far from perfect but it could be a lot worse.  

What I would like to see change is the immediate preconceptions that surface every time someone starts a conversation about ratings or any other once-controversial subject. I think it's true that people trying to bring up a subject get attacked or ridiculed on the message board and it seems like there's no open debate possible on a few subjects. That bothers me. Often I'll see a comment start with what I think are good intentions and the next ten responses are just insults or flames because it was assumed the commenter had some previously identified agenda. Let people speak their mind without jumping to conclusions.   

on Jul 23, 2003
I look through all newer skins (going back some days) here on a daily basis and I seldom found a skin that was rated too low. On the other hand I quite often found skins or walls that I personally considered to be rated too high (even my own ones). Just my honest 2 cents.



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on Jul 23, 2003
#1 by Scribe Frogboy - 7/22/2003 7:46:02 PM Do you know how the current system works?

Do you


I notice you didn't explain it to him.

#2 by China - 7/22/2003 7:50:24 PM I'm guessing not.


Ditto:

ChasUGC has make a suggestion with good will, it is obvious that he doesn't know exactly all the facts, but as he said "Make fun of people who propose an idea" is not a good idea!


What Adni said!

humm, I wonder if the CEO of say ..McDonalds would have responded to a customer the way Frogboy did?
It reminds me of a parody you might see on Saturday Night Live or Mad TV.
McDonalds has a good product but if their service was insensitive.. would they be as big as they are?

Time for me to go and ponder these and others unanswered questions of life.





on Jul 23, 2003
I am SO damn glad i do not rate stuff here. But you guys are being prettyy hard on the man that started this thread, ChasUGC.

Now you know why I say this:

Authoriyy sucks! Down with them!
Absolute power corrupts everything!
on Jul 23, 2003
Authoriyy


Authority (spelling)
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